A Computer hardware and components forum. ComputerBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » ComputerBanter.com forum » General Hardware & Peripherals » General
Site Map Home Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Pleasant surprise



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old December 18th 18, 02:30 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Pleasant surprise

Hi All,

I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed on my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.



  #2  
Old December 20th 18, 03:12 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Mike S
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default Pleasant surprise

On 12/17/2018 5:30 PM, Norm X wrote:
Hi All,

I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed on my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.


Are you certain that Windows can use multiple pagefiles simultaneously?
I'm only asking because I don't know, I did find this, not sure if it's
correct:
"Windows can use multiple page files just fine. Best practice is to have
one page file on each physical drive, assuming they're not RAID'ed. A
single drive would only have one page file, not one per partition (for
performance reasons). When a paging operation is needed, Windows will
choose the page file on the least busy drive at that moment."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...le-size-drives

  #3  
Old December 20th 18, 03:29 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Pleasant surprise

"Mike S" wrote in message
news
On 12/17/2018 5:30 PM, Norm X wrote:
Hi All,

I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not
expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed on
my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.


Are you certain that Windows can use multiple pagefiles simultaneously?
I'm only asking because I don't know, I did find this, not sure if it's
correct:
"Windows can use multiple page files just fine. Best practice is to have
one page file on each physical drive, assuming they're not RAID'ed. A
single drive would only have one page file, not one per partition (for
performance reasons). When a paging operation is needed, Windows will
choose the page file on the least busy drive at that moment."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...le-size-drives


Thanks Mike,

I just checked my Win10 Resource Monitor. Yes, the pagefiles on C: and D:
are both used, but it depends on what is going on. When I open D:\, D:\
pagefile.sys is active. But C:\ pagefile.sys is always more active than D:\
pagefile.sys . Seems to confirm my hypothesis.


  #4  
Old December 20th 18, 04:20 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Mike S
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 76
Default Pleasant surprise

On 12/19/2018 6:29 PM, Norm X wrote:
"Mike S" wrote in message
news
On 12/17/2018 5:30 PM, Norm X wrote:
Hi All,

I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not
expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed on
my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.


Are you certain that Windows can use multiple pagefiles simultaneously?
I'm only asking because I don't know, I did find this, not sure if it's
correct:
"Windows can use multiple page files just fine. Best practice is to have
one page file on each physical drive, assuming they're not RAID'ed. A
single drive would only have one page file, not one per partition (for
performance reasons). When a paging operation is needed, Windows will
choose the page file on the least busy drive at that moment."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...le-size-drives


Thanks Mike,

I just checked my Win10 Resource Monitor. Yes, the pagefiles on C: and D:
are both used, but it depends on what is going on. When I open D:\, D:\
pagefile.sys is active. But C:\ pagefile.sys is always more active than D:\
pagefile.sys . Seems to confirm my hypothesis.


Good to know, thanks.

  #5  
Old December 22nd 18, 09:24 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Pleasant surprise

"Norm X" wrote in message
news
"Mike S" wrote in message
news
On 12/17/2018 5:30 PM, Norm X wrote:
Hi All,

I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not
expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed
on my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.


Are you certain that Windows can use multiple pagefiles simultaneously?
I'm only asking because I don't know, I did find this, not sure if it's
correct:
"Windows can use multiple page files just fine. Best practice is to have
one page file on each physical drive, assuming they're not RAID'ed. A
single drive would only have one page file, not one per partition (for
performance reasons). When a paging operation is needed, Windows will
choose the page file on the least busy drive at that moment."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...le-size-drives


Thanks Mike,

I just checked my Win10 Resource Monitor. Yes, the pagefiles on C: and D:
are both used, but it depends on what is going on. When I open D:\, D:\
pagefile.sys is active. But C:\ pagefile.sys is always more active than
D:\ pagefile.sys . Seems to confirm my hypothesis.


Using two pagefiles on each SSD saves me 1.2GB in RAM memory. That's a god
send and facilitates use of virtual OS(s).


  #6  
Old December 22nd 18, 02:58 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 946
Default Pleasant surprise

Norm X wrote:
"Norm X" wrote in message
news
"Mike S" wrote in message
news
On 12/17/2018 5:30 PM, Norm X wrote:
Hi All,

I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not
expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed
on my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.
Are you certain that Windows can use multiple pagefiles simultaneously?
I'm only asking because I don't know, I did find this, not sure if it's
correct:
"Windows can use multiple page files just fine. Best practice is to have
one page file on each physical drive, assuming they're not RAID'ed. A
single drive would only have one page file, not one per partition (for
performance reasons). When a paging operation is needed, Windows will
choose the page file on the least busy drive at that moment."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...le-size-drives

Thanks Mike,

I just checked my Win10 Resource Monitor. Yes, the pagefiles on C: and D:
are both used, but it depends on what is going on. When I open D:\, D:\
pagefile.sys is active. But C:\ pagefile.sys is always more active than
D:\ pagefile.sys . Seems to confirm my hypothesis.


Using two pagefiles on each SSD saves me 1.2GB in RAM memory. That's a god
send and facilitates use of virtual OS(s).


I tested this under Windows 10, and it froze the machine twice.

I didn't use your exact test setup. I could have, but all
I wanted to prove by running a test, is that there is potential
danger. It looks to me, that if there is malloc going on when
the paging is heavy (but can't keep up), the system just freezes,
instead of slowing down to the (rate limited) paging activity.
It doesn't even seem to work as well as WinXP.

Because it has that sensitivity, I can't recommend this to
potential users, since it relies on the speed of the storage
being maintained once the system is driven into swap country.

I had a similar problem with Imagemagick, and its usage of
OpenMP library as part of image processing. Once a bunch of
processes started drawing down on memory at the same time,
the system would freeze there, too. Microsoft fixed that,
as on the next OS release, it would no longer freeze. But the
test I've just done suggests the other fix was just
a bandaid to solve that particular case, rather than an
actual "good fix".

If there is no virtual memory left, a program should
just die, rather than freezing the computer like that.
Freezing the computer isn't user friendly.

There's not much point of having a page file, if the
system won't use it. And just augers into the ground
when free RAM on the system drops below 400MB or so.
The cool part is, the IDE LED stays lit. As if some
I/O operation needed RAM, and there wasn't any to be had.

On VirtualBox, you can highlight eight VMs and click
the "Start" at the same time, if you need an
aggressive test case. My suspicion is, if you started
enough VMs simultaneously on your two SSD setup, your
system might freeze as well.

Paul




  #7  
Old December 22nd 18, 11:52 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Pleasant surprise

[snippage]
I have two SATA SSD's in my Win10 desktop PC, 250 & 500 GB. I did not
expect
Win10 to allow it but I tried and it worked. I created a pagefile.sys
on
each drive. It noticeably speeded up Win10. Then I booted WinXP in
VirtualBox, on that PC, it was even faster than native WinXP installed
on my
netbook PC. I reason that the moving data on one drive only involves
directory changes, while moving such data between two drives, actually
involves slow data transmission. Twice the bandwidth to pagefiles in
unbeatable.
Are you certain that Windows can use multiple pagefiles simultaneously?
I'm only asking because I don't know, I did find this, not sure if it's
correct:
"Windows can use multiple page files just fine. Best practice is to
have one page file on each physical drive, assuming they're not
RAID'ed. A single drive would only have one page file, not one per
partition (for performance reasons). When a paging operation is needed,
Windows will choose the page file on the least busy drive at that
moment."

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/25...le-size-drives

Thanks Mike,

I just checked my Win10 Resource Monitor. Yes, the pagefiles on C: and
D: are both used, but it depends on what is going on. When I open D:\,
D:\ pagefile.sys is active. But C:\ pagefile.sys is always more active
than D:\ pagefile.sys . Seems to confirm my hypothesis.


Using two pagefiles on each SSD saves me 1.2GB in RAM memory. That's a
god send and facilitates use of virtual OS(s).


I tested this under Windows 10, and it froze the machine twice.

I didn't use your exact test setup. I could have, but all
I wanted to prove by running a test, is that there is potential
danger. It looks to me, that if there is malloc going on when
the paging is heavy (but can't keep up), the system just freezes,
instead of slowing down to the (rate limited) paging activity.
It doesn't even seem to work as well as WinXP.

Because it has that sensitivity, I can't recommend this to
potential users, since it relies on the speed of the storage
being maintained once the system is driven into swap country.

I had a similar problem with Imagemagick, and its usage of
OpenMP library as part of image processing. Once a bunch of
processes started drawing down on memory at the same time,
the system would freeze there, too. Microsoft fixed that,
as on the next OS release, it would no longer freeze. But the
test I've just done suggests the other fix was just
a bandaid to solve that particular case, rather than an
actual "good fix".

If there is no virtual memory left, a program should
just die, rather than freezing the computer like that.
Freezing the computer isn't user friendly.

There's not much point of having a page file, if the
system won't use it. And just augers into the ground
when free RAM on the system drops below 400MB or so.
The cool part is, the IDE LED stays lit. As if some
I/O operation needed RAM, and there wasn't any to be had.

On VirtualBox, you can highlight eight VMs and click
the "Start" at the same time, if you need an
aggressive test case. My suspicion is, if you started
enough VMs simultaneously on your two SSD setup, your
system might freeze as well.

Paul


Maybe I should explain how I did this. Go to System Properties. At the top
of the virtual memory page is a button, "Automatically manage paging file
size for all drives". Uncheck this button. C: drive page file is still
"System managed". You should then be able to make D: "System managed". I
think that manually setting the pagefile upper and lower size limits might
be an error that causes your problems This worked well for my Win10 PC. When
I see that I have gained 1.2GB in free RAM, I ask from where. Answer, The
second pagefile on D:\ allowed 1.2GB of memory contents to be paged out.

I have started two VirtualBox VMs, Puppy Linux (actually started yesterday)
and now WinXP. There is still ~100 MB free Win10 memory. WinXP Task manager
says only 1-3% CPU is used. I don't want my system to crash but it still has
enough resources to permit Waterloo Maple to run.


  #8  
Old December 24th 18, 01:57 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Pleasant surprise

[snippage]

Paul


Maybe I should explain how I did this. Go to System Properties. At the top
of the virtual memory page is a button, "Automatically manage paging file
size for all drives". Uncheck this button. C: drive page file is still
"System managed". You should then be able to make D: "System managed". I
think that manually setting the pagefile upper and lower size limits might
be an error that causes your problems This worked well for my Win10 PC.
When I see that I have gained 1.2GB in free RAM, I ask from where. Answer,
The second pagefile on D:\ allowed 1.2GB of memory contents to be paged
out.

I have started two VirtualBox VMs, Puppy Linux (actually started
yesterday) and now WinXP. There is still ~100 MB free Win10 memory. WinXP
Task manager says only 1-3% CPU is used. I don't want my system to crash
but it still has enough resources to permit Waterloo Maple to run.


I just closed two VirtualBox VMs and now I have 2GB free memory. I am
pleased. There is no longer any urgency for me to find and install greater
than 4GB RAM when only 1.9GB RAM is used. Windows managed pagefiles are
doubleplus good.


  #9  
Old January 13th 19, 01:28 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Norm X[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 85
Default Pleasant surprise

Maybe I should explain how I did this. Go to System Properties. At the
top of the virtual memory page is a button, "Automatically manage paging
file size for all drives". Uncheck this button. C: drive page file is
still "System managed". You should then be able to make D: "System
managed". I think that manually setting the pagefile upper and lower size
limits might be an error that causes your problems This worked well for
my Win10 PC. When I see that I have gained 1.2GB in free RAM, I ask from
where. Answer, The second pagefile on D:\ allowed 1.2GB of memory
contents to be paged out.

I have started two VirtualBox VMs, Puppy Linux (actually started
yesterday) and now WinXP. There is still ~100 MB free Win10 memory. WinXP
Task manager says only 1-3% CPU is used. I don't want my system to crash
but it still has enough resources to permit Waterloo Maple to run.


I just closed two VirtualBox VMs and now I have 2GB free memory. I am
pleased. There is no longer any urgency for me to find and install greater
than 4GB RAM when only 1.9GB RAM is used. Windows managed pagefiles are
doubleplus good.


I have increased my RAM to 8GB using two sticks of Samsung DDR2. Now the
amount of paging is reduced. However, when accessing SSD D:\ programs or
data, Resource Monitor says that D:\pagefile.sys is accessed. This is more
efficient.



--- news://freenews.netfront.net/ - complaints: ---
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
For once, a pleasant download surprise... Paul Asus Motherboards 4 June 25th 08 04:18 AM
A pleasant surprise with a hard disk Michael A. Covington Storage (alt) 3 September 9th 04 03:44 PM
Pleasant surprise -- Doom 3 Performance deimos Nvidia Videocards 7 August 5th 04 06:34 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2019 ComputerBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.