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Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 17th 19, 11:51 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Peter Jason
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Posts: 150
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

Due to unreliability problems I'm scrapping my old units & going over
to Barebones computers. I have one already operating with an M2 drive
& a 500GB SSD.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-kits/nuc.html

Is there any fundamental problem with these small units? Are the
classical tower machines any better?


  #2  
Old July 18th 19, 12:16 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
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Posts: 1,111
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

Peter Jason wrote:
Due to unreliability problems I'm scrapping my old units & going over
to Barebones computers. I have one already operating with an M2 drive
& a 500GB SSD.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-kits/nuc.html

Is there any fundamental problem with these small units? Are the
classical tower machines any better?



Most people would judge these things on price.

If you got a 4C 8T processor in a desktop
or a 4C 8T in a NUC, which costs more ?

I like my desktops, because I can plug
cards into them and add interfaces. The
trick is selecting just the right card.

For example, for a long time, add-on USB3
was always a hair short of "full performance".
There is one chip out today, with a PCI Express
x2 interface, that improves on the older PCI3
x1 cards, and finally, it is able to match
Southbridge USB3.

Some day, a Thunderbolt host will be offered that
way, not that anyone will care at that point.
Thunderbolt peripherals are too expensive.

Paul
  #3  
Old July 18th 19, 01:08 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
John McGaw
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Posts: 704
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

On 7/17/2019 6:51 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Due to unreliability problems I'm scrapping my old units & going over
to Barebones computers. I have one already operating with an M2 drive
& a 500GB SSD.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-kits/nuc.html

Is there any fundamental problem with these small units? Are the
classical tower machines any better?


I've been building and using Shuttle "Cube" computers for years now but
they are, obviously, huge compared to those little NUC machines. I guess
how "good" any computer is depends on what you intend to do with it. If you
need massive heatsinks and cooling for overclocked gaming with multiple
GPUs you will obviously need a correspondingly huge case. On the other hand
if you are doing lightweight tasks a tiny computer is probably more than
anybody will need. I find that the Shuttle machines are a good in-between
solution since they will allow a double-wide graphics card and their
built-in cooling is very efficient with a reasonably-rated CPU.

Except for internal storage I'd think that one of the Intel NUCs would make
a great home theater computer but if media is stored on the network that
would eliminate the storage problem. My home theater computer is in a
half-height case and has a 6tB hard drive and SSD. I finally had to give in
to the inevitable and start putting media file on the network as the 6tB
got too full.
  #4  
Old July 18th 19, 06:20 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Peter Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 19:16:32 -0400, Paul
wrote:

Peter Jason wrote:
Due to unreliability problems I'm scrapping my old units & going over
to Barebones computers. I have one already operating with an M2 drive
& a 500GB SSD.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-kits/nuc.html

Is there any fundamental problem with these small units? Are the
classical tower machines any better?



Most people would judge these things on price.

If you got a 4C 8T processor in a desktop
or a 4C 8T in a NUC, which costs more ?

I like my desktops, because I can plug
cards into them and add interfaces. The
trick is selecting just the right card.

For example, for a long time, add-on USB3
was always a hair short of "full performance".
There is one chip out today, with a PCI Express
x2 interface, that improves on the older PCI3
x1 cards, and finally, it is able to match
Southbridge USB3.

Some day, a Thunderbolt host will be offered that
way, not that anyone will care at that point.
Thunderbolt peripherals are too expensive.

Paul


Another reason for the change is to have a physical-computer backup.

With the advance of USB tech, HDMI, and especially HHD & SSD
enclosures I end up with more desk space and portable drives.
  #5  
Old July 18th 19, 06:22 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Peter Jason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 150
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

On Wed, 17 Jul 2019 20:08:46 -0400, John McGaw
wrote:

On 7/17/2019 6:51 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
Due to unreliability problems I'm scrapping my old units & going over
to Barebones computers. I have one already operating with an M2 drive
& a 500GB SSD.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-kits/nuc.html

Is there any fundamental problem with these small units? Are the
classical tower machines any better?


I've been building and using Shuttle "Cube" computers for years now but
they are, obviously, huge compared to those little NUC machines. I guess
how "good" any computer is depends on what you intend to do with it. If you
need massive heatsinks and cooling for overclocked gaming with multiple
GPUs you will obviously need a correspondingly huge case. On the other hand
if you are doing lightweight tasks a tiny computer is probably more than
anybody will need. I find that the Shuttle machines are a good in-between
solution since they will allow a double-wide graphics card and their
built-in cooling is very efficient with a reasonably-rated CPU.

Except for internal storage I'd think that one of the Intel NUCs would make
a great home theater computer but if media is stored on the network that
would eliminate the storage problem. My home theater computer is in a
half-height case and has a 6tB hard drive and SSD. I finally had to give in
to the inevitable and start putting media file on the network as the 6tB
got too full.


I am not a gamer so I've not pushed things to the limit. I do not
notice any change in performance in reading photos or videos. The
only further adjustment I must make is for a stand-alone optical drive
enclosure.
  #6  
Old July 18th 19, 06:27 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

On 18/07/2019 11:16 AM, Paul wrote:
Peter Jason wrote:
Due to unreliability problems I'm scrapping my old units & going over
to Barebones computers.¬* I have one already operating with an M2 drive
& a 500GB SSD. https://www.intel.com/content/www/us...-kits/nuc.html

Is there any fundamental problem with these small units?¬*¬* Are the
classical tower machines any better?



Most people would judge these things on price.

If you got a 4C 8T processor in a desktop
or a 4C 8T in a NUC, which costs more ?

I like my desktops, because I can plug
cards into them and add interfaces. The
trick is selecting just the right card.

For example, for a long time, add-on USB3
was always a hair short of "full performance".
There is one chip out today, with a PCI Express
x2 interface, that improves on the older PCI3
x1 cards, and finally, it is able to match
Southbridge USB3.


What chip is that Paul? I've been very disappointed with the various USB3 expansion cards I've
tried. While my PC doesn't have a PCIe x2 (or a PCIe x4) slot it does have a spare PCIe gen3 x16.
(It has native USB3 but you can never have too many fast USB ports for external HDDs.)

Cheers.
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.


Some day, a Thunderbolt host will be offered that
way, not that anyone will care at that point.
Thunderbolt peripherals are too expensive.

Paul

  #7  
Old July 18th 19, 05:12 PM posted to alt.comp.hardware
Paul[_26_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,111
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

~misfit~ wrote:
On 18/07/2019 11:16 AM, Paul wrote:


For example, for a long time, add-on USB3
was always a hair short of "full performance".
There is one chip out today, with a PCI Express
x2 interface, that improves on the older PCI3
x1 cards, and finally, it is able to match
Southbridge USB3.


What chip is that Paul? I've been very disappointed with the various
USB3 expansion cards I've tried. While my PC doesn't have a PCIe x2 (or
a PCIe x4) slot it does have a spare PCIe gen3 x16. (It has native USB3
but you can never have too many fast USB ports for external HDDs.)

Cheers.


What's important here is the chip, not the brand.

https://www.startech.com/ca/Cards-Ad...rd~PEXUSB312A2

Chipset ID ASMedia - ASM2142

And you're buying this for performant USB3.0 (as in 500MB/sec),
as it would likely clip a little off USB3.1 rev2 operation.

By picking a card which attempts to operate at "one higher
standards version", it gives better performance on the
*previous* standards version. If you get my drift.

The chip has a 2 lane interface (2 lanes of a PCI Express x4
minimum). You should be able to plug that into a PCI Express
x16 slot (what I would likely be doing in practice).

On PCIe Rev1.1 = 2*250MB/sec = 500MB/sec = "cramped"

On PCIe Rev2 = 2*500MB/sec = 1000MB/sec = "good enough for USB3.0"
(PCI Express always has overhead and can't actually
run at the full rate)

The chip is Rev3 capable, but not everyone will have
a slot with that on it. 2x1000MB/sec would be sufficient to
give a good shot at USB3.1 Rev2 1000MB/sec operation on one
port.

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show...x=175&item=178

I bought the thing assuming a Rev2 slot would be available, like
on my Typing Machine.

On the Asmedia page, there is now an ASM3142, but I don't
see what is significant on that chip versus 2142.

Paul
  #8  
Old July 19th 19, 03:16 AM posted to alt.comp.hardware
~misfit~[_16_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 146
Default Scrapping mid & large-tower cases?

On 19/07/2019 4:12 AM, Paul wrote:
~misfit~ wrote:
On 18/07/2019 11:16 AM, Paul wrote:


For example, for a long time, add-on USB3
was always a hair short of "full performance".
There is one chip out today, with a PCI Express
x2 interface, that improves on the older PCI3
x1 cards, and finally, it is able to match
Southbridge USB3.


What chip is that Paul? I've been very disappointed with the various USB3 expansion cards I've
tried. While my PC doesn't have a PCIe x2 (or a PCIe x4) slot it does have a spare PCIe gen3 x16.
(It has native USB3 but you can never have too many fast USB ports for external HDDs.)

Cheers.


What's important here is the chip, not the brand.

https://www.startech.com/ca/Cards-Ad...rd~PEXUSB312A2

¬*¬* Chipset ID¬*¬*¬*¬* ASMedia - ASM2142

And you're buying this for performant USB3.0 (as in 500MB/sec),
as it would likely clip a little off USB3.1 rev2 operation.

By picking a card which attempts to operate at "one higher
standards version", it gives better performance on the
*previous* standards version. If you get my drift.


Yep, that makes sense.

The chip has a 2 lane interface (2 lanes of a PCI Express x4
minimum). You should be able to plug that into a PCI Express
x16 slot (what I would likely be doing in practice).

On PCIe Rev1.1 = 2*250MB/sec = 500MB/sec = "cramped"

On PCIe Rev2¬*¬* = 2*500MB/sec = 1000MB/sec = "good enough for USB3.0"
¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* (PCI Express always has overhead and can't actually
¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬*¬* run at the full rate)

The chip is Rev3 capable, but not everyone will have
a slot with that on it. 2x1000MB/sec would be sufficient to
give a good shot at USB3.1 Rev2 1000MB/sec operation on one
port.

http://www.asmedia.com.tw/eng/e_show...x=175&item=178

I bought the thing assuming a Rev2 slot would be available, like
on my Typing Machine.

On the Asmedia page, there is now an ASM3142, but I don't
see what is significant on that chip versus 2142.

¬*¬* Paul


Thanks for that. My x16 slot's Rev3 - Dell calls it 'gen3'.

The PC is a Optiplex 9020 mini-tower with an i7-4790, Samsung 860 EVO SSD and 32GB RAM.
Unfortunately it only has 2 internal HDD bays so I'm using mainly USB3 attached storage.

I found this on ebay that seems to use the ASM3142 and it's quite affordable.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-3-1-PCI-Express-Card-2-Ports-Superspeed-10Gbps-Raiser-Adapter-PCI-E-3-0-X4/192961582012?
Money's a bit tight this month so it's on the wish-list for now.

When I checked Amazon for cards using this chip most of them have USB-C ports, a couple had a
single USB-A with the rest USB-C. I'm not in the US so need to look to international suppliers.

Cheers,
--
Shaun.

"Humans will have advanced a long, long way when religious belief has a cozy little classification
in the DSM"
David Melville

This is not an email and hasn't been checked for viruses by any half-arsed self-promoting software.
 




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